The “We Are Not Your Soldiers” tour will reach into high school classrooms with the participation of veterans of the US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan and activists from World Can’t Wait.
Barack Obama says he will expand the US military by 92,000. Where will these troops come from? The military recruiters have a huge budget to recruit youth who are in high school now. They roam the hallways and lunch-rooms, call students at home, and set up at malls where kids hang out
The military cannot fight expand the “war on terror” in Afghanistan without this fresh cannon fodder. Military recruiters now have almost unlimited access to reach high school students because the “No Child Left Behind” law ties funding for schools to whether recruiters can get to students.
The tour will bring students the desperately missing truth of what the “war on terror” is, no matter who is president. The military is already selling the idea that Obama will end the war in Iraq, so people who join now won’t be sent to war at all. This is a lie! Many people don’t know that Obama has plans to expand the unjust war on the people of Afghanistan, and also to attack Pakistan, and perhaps, Iran.
The tour will explain, through the words of veterans themselves, how the U.S. occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan have killed a million people; displaced more than four million, and destroyed the infrastructure of both countries
When recruiters come into their school, students need to know exactly what they are being recruited for. Not freedom, not democracy and not better “career options.” Most people dying in Iraq are civilians, not combatants. The US has tens of thousands detained in their own countries. Women in the US military report widespread sexual assault by their own peers.
Speakers on the tour will give students reasons not to go into the military, and help organize collective resistance recruiters” lies. We think we can help create a situation where students and teachers are stepping out of their silent hatred for recruiters, and spreading visible mass resistance to joining this military as a part of stopping this war of terror for empire.
Classroom presentations will include:
- a short presentation by a World Can’t Wait youth organizer and either an Iraq/Afghanistan war veteran or a military family member;
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- an open discussion;
- a 10-minute video clip of testimony by Iraq veterans from the March 2008 Winter Soldier hearings about what they witnessed and perpetrated and footage of high school students protesting military recruiters.
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a short survey that students will take to give us all a sense of what they think.
Tell high school and community college students and teachers about the tour.
Contact: youth_students@worldcantwait.org 347 385 2195
Speakers for the Tour:
Iraq Veteran Phil Aliff Phil served in the US Army from 2004-2008 as a corporal with the 10th Mountain Division. After doing a tour in Iraq from 2005-2006, Aliff started the first active duty chapter of Iraq Veterans Against the War at Fort Drum. He spoke at Winter Soldier, a national event where Iraq Vets testified to the war crimes they participated in and witnessed in Iraq & Afghanistan. Phil was a part of leading protests against the war and the whole Bush program on college campuses, on the streets and outside the 2008 Democratic National Convention.
Iraq Veteran Matthis Chiroux served in the US army until 2002-2007, with a short tour in Afghanistan. After he was honorably discharged, he was ordered to deploy to Iraq in the spring of 2008. He refused, and instead challenged members of the Out of Iraq Caucus in Congress to follow through on their contention that the occupation of Iraq is illegal, and support his stand. 13 did. The US military is currently attempting to revoke his honorable discharge for refusing to fight in Iraq. He organized an antiwar veteran’s protest at the last presidential debate in October 2008, and was arrested along with 14 others. He is currently fighting the charges.
Emma K aplan : Youth & Student Coordinator of World Can’t Wait. She has organized protests against the Bush doctrine of torture, military recruiting centers, and against police brutality. She speaks to youth at concerts, in classrooms and on campus, calling on this generation to take responsibility for the crimes their government is committing in their names. Recently she participated in the protests with Port Military Resistance, where people formed human blockades to prevent the Stryker brigades from being sent to Iraq.
“We Are Not Your Soldiers” Tour
by Emma Kaplan
The military itself reportedly has a new recruiting approach: “Obama will get the US out of Iraq.”
However, many people don’t know that Obama is calling for increasing US military forces by 92,000 more troops, in addition to replacing those who leave, in pursuit of the endless “war on terror.”
We have seen from Abu Ghraib to Haditha that the way the U.S. military fights this war spreads tremendous civilian death and suffering. This will spread in Afghanistan when Obama sends the surge of US troops he promises, and into Pakistan and any other country the U.S. pre-emptively invades under the Bush doctrine.
Obama has been an enthusiastic supporter of the No Child Left Behind Act, which gives the U.S. military unlimited access to high school students” contact information, using bribery and lies. The 92,000 new recruits he’s seeking to kill and die for US empire are mostly in high school right now.
When asked in one presidential debate, “Will you vigorously enforce a statute which says colleges must allow military recruiters on campus and provide ROTC programs?” Obama said “yes.”
It becomes clear that if we want the crimes of our government to stop, we must bring into being a movement of resistance against them.
The truth behind the horrific crimes youth are being recruited to carry out is largely hidden and unchallenged.
Not anymore! World Can’t Wait is launching a national tour with Iraq veterans, speaking about their experience of fighting in the U.S. military. What sort of things are you forced to do when you join up? What is happening to the veterans who come back with horrific injuries, including post-traumatic stress disorder, brain injury, and emotional pain?
The tour will also feature a World Can’t Wait youth organizer, with experience in advocating the need for a whole generation to take responsibility for the crimes their government has committed through mass independent political resistance, and refusal to let their peers be taken into the military.
We will help students challenge recruiters with the truth about the war. This war needs to stop now! There is no waiting to see what Obama will or won’t do.
Building a movement against military recruiting could be the key to stopping this war. We have already seen many positive responses from both teachers and students about the need for people to speak the truth. There is a huge ability for this to go viral, but this depends on us.
Will you become involved and spread this?
How to do it:
Get in touch with progressive teachers using the materials on this page. Ask them to bring this tour into their class rooms.
Send an email to your friends and former teachers.
Contact schools that have had anti-recruiting or anti-war actions.
Call teachers you have met in the past and use the content of the flier
Spread it on your personal myspace, and facebook.
If you are a teacher, bring this in and spread it to other teachers.
After the tour comes to your classroom or school:
– Help organize to get the tour into other schools through getting in contact with teachers, fundraising and networking.
-Write to World Can’t Wait about your thoughts on the tour and personal letters prompting other people to join in.
– Anytime recruiters come to campus, plan an action. Challenge the recruiters when they come to your class room.
Help Launch The Not Your Soldiers Tour–Donate Today
Funds are needed! We need $4,000 in funds to make this tour a reality!
Heather, no where in your comment did you grapple with recruiting for WHAT? They are recruiting youth to go and die in an illegitimate and immoral war, that has murdered over a million people and carried out systematic bombings of civilian populations and torture. The slogan the youth in Berkeley chanted was right on..
“What are they recruiting for? Murder! Rape! Torture! War”
And further more, the arguement that “they’re just doing their jobs” doesn’t fly. After WW2, the Nuremberg trials brought out that it was not enough to just say “i was doing my job” to gas Jews, people of other nationalities, and political opponents of the fascist regime. People have a moral obligation not to go along with all of the horrors that they are being instructed to carry out, or else they’re complicit with those war crimes.
We’ve gotta stop the crimes of this whole fucking government and reverse this whole direction!
The ignorance of this group is astounding. Learn your facts, just like soldiers do not choose to deploy they do not choose recruiting duty. Rebelling against soldiers that want to get back to their real jobs in the Army will get you no where. You are entitled to your opinion because of soldiers, have you considered that? The military is not for everyone, if it is not for you that is fine, don’t enlist. News flash America: we are a volunteer force, there is no draft. Do what you signed up to do, if you don’t like it get out. Too easy! You people should be deported. Nobody supports war, but things must be finished.
I say fight. Americans love a war, it’s one more thing to argue about. I hope everyone sleeps easy at night. Imagine one day you will have to fight for your rights and cower at the thought of a fight. Keep typing in English; it was earned by the blood of Veterans.
I like web pages like this because it allows the little people to speak out without fear; often in public they would not due to fear of being oppressed. This scenario is similar to that of Iraq in 2003. I was there for some time if you have questions; it seems most on this site have been in Iraq to speak to the people of how they feel.
[quote name=”Eric”]How about the “terrorism” of over 1 million Iraqis murdered in an immoral and illegitimate war?
How about the “terrorism” of prisoners tortured, brutalized, electrocuted, sexually humiliated, raped, and murdered at Abu Ghraib, and the continuation of that torture in US prisons all over the world?
What about the “terrorism” of white lynch mobs, nooses hanging from trees, and Klansmen carrying nooses and guns in Jena, along with Black youth threatened with over 26 years in prison for standing up to that?
What about the terrorizing of homosexuals and women, especially when women try to exercise their reproductive rights over their bodies?
And how about the “terrorism” of ICE raids in the dead of night, taking immigrants women away from their children, destroying lives.
We need to stop thinking like Americans, and start thinking about humanity.
The “We’re Not Your Soldiers” Tour is right on and needs to be supported! Are we going to be “Good Germans?” Or are we going to fulfill our responsibility to humanity and refuse to go along with these crimes that are being committed in our names?[/quote]
im glad you came back with this comment. People are so self obsorbed, they dont even realize the lies that spews out of the white house just so they can justify mass killing of human being. For all you idiots that dont get what this site stand for, here a little trueth ” The way to peace is not war” the war on terror is like an oxymoron, and all you that believe that this so called war on terror will actually make us safe, your in for a rude awakening, and your all morons for believing that it will. The world trade center was in retaliation for something we did, they just dont tell you that. but if you actually read you would find that out and not american media because there’s no trueth in it. Wake up america…..wake up. we are not the only ones on this damn planet.
I like killing brown people.
i think this is a great idea because quite frankly im sick of all the recruiters walking around the hallways like some bamf or something saying its our duty to our country to join the armed forces and what not….. if we wanted to join then we would have done it by now and the whole concept of expanding the army doesnt sound to good to me…. im joining the air force anyways but whats the point of having recruiters if there is a center in your town that you can go to and sign up… and even if there is no where to go in your town to enlist in the armed forces you can go online and schedule an appointment so all the government is doing by sending the recruiters is finding anew way to waste the tax money that we have to pay….. if the whloe idea lately is to save the tax money and give it back to the people then i think that we should actually give it to them instead of paying the soldiers that get paid enough as it is…… the middle class families that arent doing to finacialy well are the ones that are being pressured into joining the armed forces in order to get some money just so that they can live up to the standards now set by the economy…..and what mr. garry perry said recently is exactly what im tired of .. dont think about what ur country can do for you but what you can do for everyone else in your life or around your life… B.S. if they arent doing anything to help you why help them! like seriously why should i go and sacrifice my life in the lines just so that they can sleep at home feeling safe while i sit there in my bunker and what not wondering when or if my base will be discoverd and shot up by them iraqis….. why should i have to go and do that? why should i feel obligated to serve my country? why do the recruiters have to come to my school? why cant there be a separation of government and the school? why cant it be like it is with the schools and the church? why does everyone get hyped up about all the economic disaters? why does it seem like that everything on the news is always bad when they open up with good morning or good afternoon or good evening when in fact its the exact opposite… so if they open their show with a lie how are we supposed to beleive everything else that they say?…. i know it sounds like im being optimistic but thats exactly what im doing…. P.S. this little group thingy that you have started is a GENIOUS idea! if any of you want to talk to me email me at ryan-t@live.com or meatballrt2011@yahoo.com
thanks
I would have to say that we who serve in the military are not youth. We are grown and understand what we do. When shooting at targets, we understand why we shoot the way we do. As a soldier, I declare that I wish I served in an Army that never fought on the field of battle. But, I can’t say that.
Also, there is more harassment of males than females in the Army, for certain. I have met females who were ordered to stop harassing males in my company, they were so aggressive.
The Iraqis wanted us there in the beginning, now they just want to live their lives freely, like everyone else on this earth. I respect the Iraqi people and sympathize with them in their struggle to find peace (I hope they find it).
But, my military training shows me that the world isn’t perfect, however much we try. We can’t stop war, and those who serve in the US Military is in many places the only thing standing between a current peace and anarchy, between death and life.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because I stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Always Out Front
RLTW!
gary perry,
you one of da fools we fightin against.
even the corporate media reports the civilian deaths of palestinians.
wake up gary perry. your ideas paranoid and your logic scary.
[quote name=”Truther”]Everyone needs to learn what “false-flag” terrorism is!
Furthermore, many people now believe that Cheney allowed 9/11 to happen on purpose: to pave the way for the Afghanistan & Iraq occupations, the so-called patriot act, etc.
Please do your own research![/quote]
Any creditability you gain, for your cause, you destroy with asinine, illogical statements like this. Yes, I have grave doubts about the war in Iraq, and the implications of secret prisons and quasi-legal torture.
But. implying that a crime of the magnitude of 9/11 could be committed by the US Gov. without evidence or witnesses, ignores reality. so called documentaries such as “Loose change” have no credibility.
[quote name=”Alex Adams-Leytes”]Terrorism is a symptom of nothing but blind hatred by people brainwashed by a sick, evil ideology. You people need to get a clue.[/quote]
I’m sorry Mr. Adams; War is a Racket, a tool of plunder, cannon fodder, dept and domination.
What does Bin Laden have to do with Iraq? In fact, the FBI doesn’t even “officially” connect him to 9/11. Six of the identified suicide bombers were found alive. None of them are from Iraq – Iraq had no military to speak of and few medical supplies due to UN sanctions??? The Shiite and Sunni lived together in peace, harmony and even marriage – now don’t go swallowing media driven absurdity about crazed killers who fly into a fits of blind rage bent on destroying one another. I agree, there is no rational explanation for Iraq to terrorize America; mostly because Iraq didn’t.
It is standard operating procedure for economic hit men to: First, bribe to corrupt; second, send in the jackals; Last on the list is war and friendly dictator regime change.
Oil, you bet it’s about oil. Executive Order 13290; Executive Order 13303; I’m afraid most of us think a little short along the goal line when it comes to oil and natural gas. It’s black gold, hoard gold and silver and the world’s economy is restricted to paper dept money the IMF prints out of thin air. Monopolize the supply of oil – the developing world will live and die by its whim & control.
“Iraq’s oil ministry stepped up talks with BP, Exxon Mobil, Shell and Total after the US vice-president, Dick Cheney, visited Iraq in March, where he also pressed the government to revive efforts to pass the hydrocarbon law that nationalist MPs were blocking. The first contracts are expected to be signed this month.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/20/iraq.oil
Funny, to think of America as a nation of free people – all we have has been usurped for the sake of global monopolization.
Read:
War is a Racket by Major Gen Smedley D. Butler
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
by John Perkins
A Game As Old As Empire by Steven Hiatt
The Law by Frederic Bastiat
The Creature from Jekell Island by G Edward Griffin
Any book written by Frederick Douglass
Or maybe things are because this is the way they should be.
P.S. I find your comment about the KKK as some naturally expected reaction, almost like a inevitable end-of-slavery side-effect – to be simplistic, shallow and arrogant.
Of course American soldiers do all they can to avoid civian casulties. To suggest anything else is a complete lie. But then as a famous president once said: “It’s not that liberals are ignorant;it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”
And this website proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
to Alex cont…….
First, your general assessment appears pessimistic and your course of action essentially negative. You apparently believe that the terrorists have been irremediably reduced to bestial savages and there is no possible recourse other than to exterminate them. I believe that they are still human beings and I believe that any state of mind induced by coercive counter-natural conditioning can be resolved and the original positive, life-affirming disposition restored.
Underlying these differing views is a deeper predisposition or choice of identification with either death or life. It seems to me that you, from the perspective of life, choose death as your means of sustaining life. I see that in the long run this inherent contradiction confounds any long term gain. (though, as I said earlier, I can see immediate value in expedient use of force to ward off direct attack, but not to accomplish strategic objectives). In the long run, in my view, one counters and overcomes death with life. Even as peace is the true answer to war. Even when one is forced to make defensive war it is necessary to be focussed on peace as the prime objective and overlook no possible opportunity to return to peace. Being peaceful is ultimately the best way to preserve peace and realize it again when it is absent.
I am seriously interested in how temperament and social conditioning interact to bring an individual to espouse views counter to reason and common sense, counter to her or his true organic, existential, best interests, that bring her or him to act energetically according to those views, even when those actions are definitely, obviously destructive of her or his well-being.
I have been interested in these matters for quite some time; long before the American people elected George W. Bush and set themselves thus on a more or less inevitable course toward grossly debilitating war, financial calamity and radical societal breakdown. This turn of events, as you might imagine, served to emphasize the timeliness and relevance of my concern and give it an even higher priority for me, while energizing me to more ardently pursue my studies.
I would hope that you would agree with me that the suicidal acts of terrorists of various persuasions present extreme examples of this phenomenon of negative social conditioning. When examining behavior, it is often most instructive to attend to extreme forms of that behavior. Psychologists, for example, have learned a great deal that is of use in understanding basic human, mental process by investigating severe, mental disorder. This is the primary basis of my professional concern with terrorism, although that is aligned with my simpler and more immediate concern for my own and my community’s safety and security, threatened as they are by such behaviors.
You obviously have similar concerns though quite possibly your grounds and perspectives differ considerably from mine. Even so, perhaps even more because of such differences, it is potentially productive for us to discuss the matter. Where we can find areas of agreement they are likely to be more certain just because we have both seen the same thing from opposite sides of the field, so to speak. It was in this spirit that I attempted to review and sum up points on which we are provisionally agreed. Though our viewpoints are, de facto, opposed in a number of significant ways, I would like to avoid polarizing our positions so far as that is possible. With that said, after having stated where I believe we have agreement, I would like to review areas of apparent disagreement, while at the same time welcoming your disagreement with my appraisal.
Come on, Erishkegal, you’re regressing. You began to see some light it seemed with your last post, but now you just jumped back into the “war for oil” business. There was no desire to extend any military “dominence” in the Middle East, and you have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that ONE DROP of Iraqi oil has ended up in the hands of the U.S. I remind you that we’re spending unending money of our own hard labor on the rebuilding effort when Iraq has billions in oil revenue that we won’t even touch for that purpose, let alone for ourselves. There’s not so much as an American fingerprint on Iraqi oil or oil profit. It discredits the many legitimate arguments against the Iraq war when you try to pull this stunt. The war was a response to intelligence that turned out to be wrong. Period. We don’t want “dominence”–we want to prevent the next 9/11 and worse. And the moral high ground is held in that fact. It is not a matter of the degrees of the action–it is a matter of their intent. Our intent is to protect our citizens. The terrorists intent is to slaughter as many innocents as possible and take down this nation.
You’re also bowing at the alter of world opinion here, and that’s dangerous. You’re saying we shouldn’t get the necessary information we need to save thousands of innocent lives by a practice that (whether you call it water in the face or “torture”) leaves the “victim” no worse for the wear afterwards–so that the rest of the world will like us more and be willing to cooperate. This country was never more popular with the rest of the world than we were under Bill Clinton, but guess what? THAT STILL DIDN’T PREVENT 9/11!! No amount of international goodwill is going to substitute for recgonizing what needs to be done regardless of how unpopular it might make us. In many cases, help from the international community only goes so far as they can go without having to get their hands dirty, and we MUST not let this suffice, or we will lose thousands more innocent lives.
One more thing: you are grossly misrepresenting the words of Abizad and Casey. They said nothing to the effect that preventing terror must only be a matter for police and intelligence agencies. The in fact said nothing about the justification or lack thereof, for the war. What they said was that the war was the war was being waged incompetently, with too few troops and no exit strategy, which was 100% true. But they were not espoucing your position here by any means.
As I understand it, the basic discussion here is intended to consider how best to re-establish and then maintain secure, provident conditions of life for, first, American citizens and then, so far as it is possible, for peace-loving, honorable people around the world. This means, first, conducting our internal affairs in ways that make and keep us strong enough to defend against all possible threats. And then, this means conducting our foreign relations in ways that promote and establish peace and rewarding exchange with all our neighbors. Then it means maintaining adequate defense forces and ensuring that they serve exactly that purpose and no other.
The Bush administration was criminally in error to see the 9-11 tragedy as an opportunity to extend military dominance in the Middle East in order to secure oil supplies. In effect this used the the terrorism as a means of attaining a strategic objective and therefore, in a very real, practical sense, justified rather than totally demeaned and rejected it out of hand.
Then, in countering any such despicable, immoral practice it is completely necessary not to become identified with it in any way; not to employ any of it’s tactics no matter what the immediate inducement might be. The difference between the perpetrators and those who oppose them must be crystal clear and remain so throughout the conflict. It cannot be a question of who’s actions are less reprehensible. You cannot take and hold the moral high ground simply by being not as bad as the opposition. For the American forces to engage in anti-democratic actions according to “ends justifying the means” rationales was — and is — stupid, as only a clique like that organized by Bush and Cheney could be. In the comprehensive scheme of things, the fact that American forces, supposedly responding to terrorists, engaged in “extraordinary rendition” and torture has been — and is — a grave error; not to be dismissed as ” a little water in the face.” It is not what the practice did to alleged terrorists. It is what it does to world opinion and readiness to cooperate with the United States in real measures to address the real problem.
So, strategically and tactically, the war is the product of ignorant — and fraudulent — reactive demagoguery. It was — and is — a mistake measured against a variety of standards and criteria. It cannot, on any grounds be justified. It was the wrong response in the first place and it is causing tens of thousands of unnecessary casualties even now. It is not at all a question of whether the “surge” worked or not. This whole issue is an attempted obfuscation of the fact that the war itself doesn’t work. Again, proper response is a matter for police and intelligence agencies, not armies that cannot avoid causing more civilian casualties than ever the terrorists did or will do. It was not just retired generals who said this. It was Abazaid and Casey who saw this and said it and lost their jobs for doing so. And the “We Are Not Your Soldiers” soldiers are totally right in joining with all the caring, intelligent people to stop this misguided, counterproductive war and the ongoing unnecessary suffering causes.
Well, well, well, there may be some hope for you yet. Now that you’ve finally acknowledged some of these facts that are necessary to even have any dialogue on this matter, we can move to the next level. I still don’t understand why you insist on using the quotation marks around the word terrorism. The perfectly objective definition is the deliberate targeting of civilans–and again, this goes both ways. If Al-Qaida were trying to attack only military targets but kill some civilians in the process, that would not be terrorism. But their aim is to murder as many civilians as possible. You say there is a lot that you still don’t understand about terrorism, so I will give you some sources, in the terrorists own words–nothing in the figment of any “fearmonger”‘s imagination–that you might want to check out. First, read a work by Sayyid Qutb. He is considered by many to be the father of modern radical Islamism. Learn his philosophy–it is based on sick delusions, not any legitimate beefs with American foreign policy. Then watch the documentary “Obsession”–you’ll see in jarring terms the indoctrination that goes on with the jihadists. It’s actual footage, and again, it’s not teaching them any legitimate reasons to hate the west for any actions or conditions they claim we cause–it is who we are. It is along the same type of indoctrination that Hitler did with his Nazi sheep. It really is as simple as this. Again, I acknowledge the good and evil side, but these people have been so deeply indoctrinated that nothing can reverse it. Hitler needed to be taken out, and that’s really all we can do here. I may not have a final diagnosis or prescription either, but the knowledge of these areas is a good start. I ask you to check these sources out.
Now, that said, I have never said Bush did an exemplary job immediately after 9/11. It does seem that we had bin Laden trapped and allowed him to get away, so clearly we botched certain operations. But a couple things to remember here. First, bin Laden was really little more than a figurehead in the planning of 9/11. The real mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, has been captured and is currently being tried. We also captured numerous other Al-Qaida operatives in Afghanistan. Now in hindsight, Iraq certainly was a mistake. But we had what seemed to be credible intelligence that we had to move on, and the problem with your perscription for treating terror as a crime against humanity with a worldwide force is threefold: first, not all were willing to concede as such, including many parts of the Arab world. But in fact we did use significant diplomacy to get Pakistan to work with us, at least outwardly in this fight. A larger problem is the larger a collaborative, the less efficient it often is. A further problem is that many times countries in a proposed larger alliance will act in their own self-interest first and foremost and prevent this coalition from being formed. France and Germany and Russia for example, were bribed with oil field access by Saddam to not allow a security council resolution to use force against him. There is documented evidence to this. So we were caught. Have we made mistakes? ABSOLUTELY! But many people act like this is nothing but a war for empire with no proof of such, and act like the terrorists were somehow thinking straight, and just responded out of proportion. This is dangerous thinking, and I would advise you to do some evaluation.
Alright, Alex, I hear you. And I agree that the policy and practice of the American government and armed forces are significantly different from those of people like Bin Laden and Milosevic and Idi Amin and Pol Pot. I agree that actions which do not intend, but still result in, civilian casualties are not morally or legally equivalent to actions which do intend to harm innocent non-combatants. It is clear to me that the phenomenon we have come to call “terrorism” is a significant international concern. I want to see an end to it as much as you do.
Where we differ significantly is in our appraisals of the actual phenomenon and what we believe are the most effective responses to it. I am saying: 1.) put this in proper perspective. See it for what it actually is 2.) Don’t react. Respond rationally and calmly, efficiently and effectively.
These people are still human beings, no matter how extreme and distorted their ideologies and reactions may be. They all have a light and dark side, too. If their dark side has overwhelmed their light side, we need to observe objectively and analyze empirically the conditions that have stimulated and supported that psycho-spiritual regression. We need to learn from it, first to take the necessary precautions to avoid becoming infected with the sickness ourselves; and second, to be able to eliminate those conditions, to effectively, finally stop the spreading of the disease.
I readily admit that I do not yet fully understand the phenomenon nor do I yet see clearly and comprehensively what the proper response is. Forgive my presumption, but I do not believe that you have, yet, a final diagnosis and prescription. I believe that real, patient, in-depth discussion by truly concerned, truly humane people will eventually bring that necessary understanding and effectively organized, appropriate, efficacious response.
It is clear to me that there is definite, present threat; that while we are looking for the truly appropriate response we must do what we can to defend innocent people from it, including, where necessary, the careful application of force, even lethal force.
Without, as I said, having yet full understanding, I must say that I believe the Bush Administrations reaction was wrong. It did not effectively deal with the immediate 9-11 perpetrators, eliminating at least that particular manifestation of the general phenomenon. Bin Laden is still at large and Al Quaida is still generating more terrorist activity. And it did, obviously, add fuel to the fire; actually feeding the conditions that cause and promote the phenomenon. In my view, as many other cooler heads urged at the time, it would have been far more productive to treat the matter as a patent crime against humanity and organize a world-wide police and intelligence agencies response through inter-pol and other relevant institutions, to make it and keep it an international issue to which all the world’s sane people need to respond in concert.
I’m not “excusing” anything, I’m saying you people are wasting your time if your primary target for exposing international criminal activity is the U.S. Fine, call attention to mistakes we’ve made and incidents that shouldn’t have happened. But spend the majority of your time on the REAL criminals and terrorists, and that ain’t the U.S.
I never said it’s “alright to ‘light up a car full of civilians women and children at a checkpoint'” which first of all, if it did happen, it wasn’t in retaliation for the journalist beheading, it would likely have been because the car tried to speed through that checkpoint, thus making it a security threat. So in answer to you question, how that argument would work for me if I were the girl’s father would depend on the circumstances, and I am sure I would be equally traumatized no matter what they were, but in terms of the moral and legal responsibility of those who caused her death it would depend on their intent and whether they had actual reason to mistake her for someone else. I remind you again that this is why there is a legal distinction between first degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. So in fact, your argument making the two equivalent, while you claim mine wouldn’t work in a school play ground, YOURS wouldn’t work where it really matters, which is a COURT OF LAW!!!!!!
Finally, are you aware that U.S. soldiers have been PROSECUTED when civilians are killed? That proves to anyone without an ideological axe to grind that any “barbarism” committed is most certainly NOT institutionalized, rather it is condemned and rooted out, also bearing NO resemblence no what the REAL criminals and terrorists do. When was the last time you saw them prosecuting THEIR henchmen for beheading the people? Don’t answer that–the answer is NEVER!!! And when we start seeing that, THEN come back to me with your arguments, not a moment before.
Alex. Excusing U.S. criminal behavior by saying it’s pretty far down on the list is just plain lame. You might be alright with it if your 15 yr. old daughter is just a little pregnant but you only have to murder one innocent person to be a murderer shunned and abhorred by every decent human. Last week I was dismayed by your lack of critical thinking. This week I’m appalled by your blatant casuistry in the service of explaining away your own country’s murderous behavior. According to your “logic” it’s alright if G.I.’s “light up” a car full of civilian women and children at a checkpoint “because” somebody in Iraq beheaded a mercenary. See how fear and hate driven reaction has turned your mind into a sludge pump?
You probably want to repeat your mantra about Americans not targeting civilians. “Gee! I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to shoot your daughter. I thought she was a terrorist.” How would that “argument” work if you were the girl’s father? Maybe you could tell him it’s alright because his countrymen target civilians.
Trying to justify admitted, gross institutionalized barbarity by claiming your enemy’s excesses are worse than your own would be ludicrous if it weren’t so pathetic. Last week I was asking you to wake up. This week I’m telling you to grow up. Your “arguments” wouldn’t work on a grade school play ground.
Want to know what would happen if “the country was at war but no one went?” The country would be DESTROYED and quick. And I’ll go into this with you too since you apparently haven’t been reading the earlier posts. The reason non-violence worked with Ghandi was that he was dealing with people who, when all was said and done, valued their own self-interest more than they valued the damage they were doing to Ghandi’s people. He was able to make it a scenario where it was in the British oppressor’s own self-interest to change their system. That has NO APPLICATION WHATSOEVER to what we’re up against with Islamic jihadists, because they don’t care about any self-interests, they care about destroying the U.S. and the entire West for that matter, and then they’ll have their 72 virgins waiting for the in Heaven. Therefore, they don’t care if they go down with us. Thus, the only to confront them is to DESTROY them before they destroy us. Nothing else will work here.
ghandi said: “there is no way to peace, peace is the way.” living in germany, i didn´t realize, there is such a well organized antiwar movement. keep up the good work! bush and cheyney are heavy weight faschists, but i don´t doubt for a minute that obama will decive us too. any chance the “the world cant wait” tour would go through schools in germany, and report about their progress. it would really help in promoting a positive image of a great country such as the u.s. imagine the country was at war but no one went, wouldn´t that be great?
No sir, you’re the one who needs to wake up. You ask me my point, I will answer. My point is that if your website and its brainwashed sheep are really about stopping international criminals, the U.S. is pretty far down that list, and in your insane hysteria, you use up valuable time and resources that could be used to call attention to some REAL international crime. Like when you call us “torturers” becuase a few known terrorists might have gotten a little water in their faces, while never bothering to mention the people who slice off the heads of innocent journalists when they capture them. Or when you call us “terrorists” for civilian deaths that we tried to avoid without a peep about the ones that were sought after by the true terrorists, with their only regret being that they didn’t kill ENOUGH!!!! I am in no way brainwashed by anyone or anything, I know the facts, and I am not saying this country is perfect, far from it, but no nation is, every nation has done unsavory things in its past, and even now this country has made grave mistakes, particularly in the MANAGEMENT of the war in Iraq. This, by the way, is the reason for the statistic you mentioned. Those who wanted us out of Iraq wanted this because they believed it to be a lost cause that could only get worse and distract from the War on Terror rather than help win it. The percentage of the country who believes you “imperialist aggression” or “war for empire” bullshit number MUCH lower than this. Explain to me then why John McCain would have won according to polls if the election had ben primarily about Iraq. The public wants to succeed there, and they were canned because their strategies were not working. Now they are, and again, in case you haven’t noticed, we have an agreement now with the Iraqis for responsible withdrawal.
Finally, I never denied the good and evil side to everyone and every society, I actually agree with you on that, as well as that there are sometimes conflicting vectors in a society. But the vector that is in control is still the positive one, at least in this society, and you have no facts to back up to the contrary. You have people like Eric, who God only knows what he’s going on, you have retired generals who have testified to mistakes in strategy, and you have these winter soldier people who testify to terrible acts committed by a very small percentage of their associates who had no business joining the military in the first places and whose actions are in no way sanctioned by the government. Where I come from, we call that “smoke and mirrors.”
Alex, I ask again: What’s your point? This website is about stopping our government’s criminal activities. Three years ago, seventy-five percent of the American people wanted our troops out of Iraq. The Hamilton-Baker Iraq Study Group recommended the same thing. The Generals in charge, Abizaid and Casey, likewise. When Rumsfeld himself began to have doubts Bush replaced him with Gates who was programmed to dump Abizaid and Casey and replace them with compliant politicos, Fallon and Petraeus. When Fallon expressed doubts Gates flushed him, put Petraeus in his place and Odierno in Petraeus’ spot. All this shuffling was to find and keep in place military leaders with no qualms about opposing the will of the people — and sound military strategy – in order to perpetuate the Bush-Cheney junta’s essentially criminal political-economic program.
My point is that in our country there are two, opposed will vectors in play; one essentially ruthless, lawless, motivated by blind power, lust and greed; the other by laudable, idealistic concerns for human rights, fair play, peace, justice and healthy society; the one, “dark,” a powerful aggressive minority; the other, “light,” a generally passive pleasure-seeking majority. And the whole society, due to the ruthlessness and deceit of the dark side and the idealistic naivete of the light side, at present serves the purposes of the dark side under the cover of the light side. And the dark side plays to the idealism of the light side to keep the majority passive and deceived about what is being done “in it’s name,” as it were.
Eric is telling you, R.R. is telling you, the retired generals are telling you, the “We Are Not Your Soldiers” soldiers are telling you that the dark side is DARK and it is pulling heavy reactions from other social groups who also have light and dark sides; reactions that energize their dark sides to oppose America’s dark side.
And I am telling you that societies don’t get like that, with split and opposed dark and light sides, unless individual members of those societies, in their own psychic economies, manifest similar splitting and internal conflicts that end up with the dark side taking over and using the light side as a mask to hide its objectionable features and enable its anti-social, immoral projects.
And I am telling you that: 1.) You are being brainwashed by America’s dark side and 2:) Your own dark side is energized by your society’s dark side so it is using your light side’s desire for peace and justice to justify it’s dark, brutal bloodlust; and 3.) This happens because you don’t believe and recognize that you, like everyone else has both a dark, animal side and a light, rational human side. Your rational side is being subverted to serve your animal side just like the high ideals of our country are being subverted, to serve the purposes of torturers and state terrorists. You need to wake up and help us wake the rest of our countrymen.
No, guess I didn’t split Erishkegal, though you’re still not worth my time, given that you’re the one who won’t think. How many times do I have to emphasize, many people have gone into these terrorists’ minds–THERE’S NOTHING THERE!!! THEY HAVE BEEN MINDLESSLY BRAINWASHED BY AN IDEOLOGY OF HATRED!!! There’s nothing more to it than that. You keep parroting your propaganda, and every time something you say gets debunked, you just repeat it over and over. Once again, explain to me why Vietnamese and Japanese aren’t the ones perpetrating this evil. And it isn’t what “I think” threatens me or this nation, it is what these psychos have DECLARED IN THEIR OWN WORDS!!!!! They LIVE for the sole purpose of destroying us, and nothing we do, say, or change will change them because they have been mindlessly brainwashed. The only end they wish to achieve is our destruction. Dealing with them must involve taking them out, and this is not acting our of “fear” it is confronting their proudly declared intentions. In this case you stop their sick brand of violence by getting rid of them, and eventually it will be acknowledged that we still had the moral high ground because while they tried to kill as many civilians as possible, we did everything we could to avoid civilian deaths, and once again, you can deny this claim all you want, but I know people in the military and I know the rules they are held to.
And Eric QUIT YOUR BULLSHIT PUTTING TERRORIST IN QUOTATION MARKS!!! Terrorists TARGET civilians, we don’t. If they were trying to prevent civilian casualties in their attacks, then any that actually did happen would not be classified as terrorism, because these civilians were not the primary targets, but they were. There is no legitimate dispute about this whatsoever. And you know full well that this nation will not use nuclear weapons against Iran, we’re not barbarians–it’s a threat to make sure Ahmadine-whackjob knows what would happen if he tried to use them on us or Israel, and if you think he would hesitate to do it once he has them, you are NUTS!!! Not my (or anyone else’s) fear or paranoia–HIS OWN PROUD, SICK WORDS!!!! I’ll say again, get a grip and a clue!!!
Ok, two things…
1. I think it’s very wrong to spend all of this time talking about “terrorists” without talking about the crimes of the US government, which by far outweigh and surpass anything perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists (who, lets be clear, are oppressors as well). We’re talking about a government that historically dropped atomic bombs on civilian populations, and today refuses to take nuclear weapons off the table for dealing with Iran (including Barack Obama). We have to stop the crimes of this government.
2. What about the We Are Not Your Soldiers Tour? This is an important tour of GI Resistance in the face of all of the horror of this fucking government, and we need to be supporting it and building for it!
So much for the belligerent solipsist. He couldn’t bring the discussion down to his level and control the discourse to feed his fantasy so he split. Whatever. We still need to think constructively about creating a world without terrorism.
Alright, strapping on an explosive packet and walking into a group of police trainees and blowing yourself up to blow them up is radical behavior. You have to ask what would bring a human being to do such a thing? If you really want to stop people from doing that you have to get inside the head of a suicide attacker; but to get inside their head, you have to be able to get inside your own head. You have to empathize. You have to ask “What would be grounds for me to do something like that?.” It’s radical, but it’s still typical human behavior. Under certain conditions it’s a “natural” response. In feudal Europe there were Viking “berserkers.” Among Native American war makers there were “dog soldiers.” The Japanese in the second world war mounted “kamakazi” attacks. You have to analyze the behavior and the conditions that provoke it if you really want to pull the plug on it. You have to change the conditions that provoke suicidal attacks. And you have to see that such conditions are becoming more wide spread. The behavior is proliferating. Columbine was a purely American example. And there have been dozens of other similar episodes in the past ten years.
People like Alex don’t want to think. They want to just react – violently- to what they see as a threat. They don’t have the patience and consciousness and self-love to stop and think and figure out a solution that is really pro-life. They just want to lash out at what they think threatens them. That’s not far from the mind-set of the adolescent Columbine killers. They are afraid and they want to act from fear and it doesn’t bring peace. It spreads fear. They need to wake up. If they looked in their own heads they could see what makes them like that and what they could do to change their own murderous attitude. Then they could apply that knowledge to change others’ minds. You don’t really stop violence by violence. If you want to put an end to it you have to find peace in your own heart first. Then, from the peace in your self, you can calmly go about pacifying the violent other. Blind, fear-driven reaction just proliferates blind, fear-hate reaction. People need to Cool Out and Get a Clue. You have to counter fear and hate with faith in life and love. These are the grounds of the true courage it takes to look at ugliness and deal with it effectively.
You do realize, RRLedford, that the minute you utter the words “9/11 was an inside job” you lose the right to have anything else you say taken seriously. Go ahead, cite the “documentaries”, the articles, the “inconsistencies” that have all been thoroughly debunked by every credible scientist who has examined them. Try something else. Oh, one other thing–the very fact that you can call this a “neo-fascist state” without having to fear getting arrested or worse for it proves that you’re wrong in designating it as such.
By design the Global War on Terror has no exit strategy. It is think-tank engineered to fulfil the priorities of the CONGRESSIONAL-Industrial-Military-Complex. Create a world where people feel threatned (by false-flag terror attacks=>9/11 was an inside job); then “rally round the flag boys!!” NeoFascist state, ain’t it great! This is the level of jingo babble reactonary spew I see flowing all to freely here. Go set up your kool-aid stands somewhere else!
I’ve seldom heard someone ramble on for so long and say so little in my life. Cutting through all the psychobabble, I’ll only say two things–I have no problem with dealing with the “psychological dimension of terrorism” but once again, that psychological dimension is mindless brainwashing. So maybe we should send them to reeducation camps, because that’s about the only way to undo this kind of indoctrination. And finally, yes, the use of violence against humans is a sickness to be cured–to use medical terminology, it is akin to a cancer in that its sources must be removed from the body before anything else can be done. And this is all we’re trying to do. Beyond that, you have answered none of my questions, so I bid you farewell.
Dear Alex,
You don’t want to acknowledge or deal with the psychological dimension of terrorism. You want to dismiss it as “psycho babble.” That’s understandable. We all would like to sleep through it all if we could. We all cling to the infantile pseudo -security of unconsciousness as long as we can; but if we want to realize our true humanity we have to wake up and be conscious and deal with life consciously, rationally, with wisdom and compassion. “Gut” reaction doesn’t cut it. Humans differentiated themselves from the other animals through being more aware through consciously appraising the real situation and rationally responding to it with really adaptive moves.
It is mental power that has given humans dominion over all the other animals. And it is the misuse of mental power that has created our greatest problems. To solve these problems, terrorism among them, we need to better understand how our minds work. We need to apply rational consciousness to better understand our own animal nature and how to bring it into harmony with the reality of human society; of one, global society of soon-to-be nine billion people. To do that we must learn to share what we have in unprecedented ways. We must teach ourselves a whole new language of tolerance and forbearance. We must learn to look at human use of violence against humans, as a sickness to be cured rather than an incitement to more violence. We must see it as regression to inhumane animal behavior and we must be prepared to treat those who have recourse to it as we treat other dangerous wild animals, with good wildlife management policies. And to do this we need to think clearly and communicate peacefully, working toward real consensus that can ground effective social action. And this all requires sound psychological understanding that comes from honest, objective self-reflection.
We have no desire for vengence or dominatio, only to eliminate those who would eliminate us. And you clearly still have no desire to research any of the people who have actually carried out the heinous attacks against the U.S. and the West in general (or any nation that threatens to adopt Western values–India for example), because if you did, you’d have to acknowledge the inconvenient reality that these psychos have been anything but oppressed or deprived–ignorant, perhaps, but the better term again would be brainwashed by blind hatred. Once again, I ask you to read about the backgrounds of the 9/11 hijackers, but again, you wouldn’t want to hear that because it would shoot your entire argument straight to hell.
And the crucial difference between Tutu or Mandela and the circumstances we face is that they were dealing with people who cared more about their own survival than they did about taking others down with them. Not so with jihadist terrorists. They don’t care if they don’t survive as long as we don’t. There’s nothing we can do about deranged lunatics like this other than eliminating them, while trying to do as little damage to innocents as possible, which if you did any unbiased research into our military tactics, you would learn that our soldiers practically fight with their hands tied behind their backs to avoid as many civilian casualties as possible. I personally know some of these soldiers, and I know the rules they are held to. Yes, there are the occasional ones who don’t abide by these rules and had no business being in the army in the first place, and these are the ones you hear about from the Winter Soldier people, but this represents a tiny minority. And you still have yet to explain to me if indeed this is about “oppression” or “fighting fire with fire” rather than a sick, twisted ideology that systematically indoctrinates hatred and brainwashes people to die for it, why then are there no Vietnamese or Japanese seeking to destroy the United States?? If you’re going to reply, please answer my questions, otherwise you are not worth my time.
in answer to Alex,
Ten thousand years of human history, of meeting violence with reactive violence, has clearly demonstrated the ultimate inadequacy of that way. In that time, human consciousness has continued to evolve so that now there are at least some among us who can see that there is a better way to deal with human conflict and who are moving to realize it in practical action.
We all want an end to terrorism. Only some of us are clear by now that fighting fire with fire is, at best, a short term tactical ploy. The long term, strategic move is to oppose fire with water, eliminating the heat, or, better yet, to remove the fuel. And, clearly, oppression is a primary fuel. Ignorance is another. Human misery due to deprivation is another. It is possible to eliminate these factors but it takes spiritual maturity and rational, compassionate consciousness. It demands that we grow beyond our limited, taking care of numero uno, ego viewpoint and comprehend the big picture, think of the real needs of humanity as a whole and not just work for one faction to the detriment of others in the typical, competitive zero-sum game way. It means giving up petty needs for vengeance and domination. Look at people like Nelson Mandela and Bishop Tutu for example.
Eric, did you actually read what I wrote? Apparently not, because I said NOTHING about Iraqis wanting us there. I said the U.S. military bases in SAUDI ARABIA (there is a difference, in case your pseudo-intellectual mind didn’t know) that bin Laden condemned in some pre-9/11 statement) WERE in fact requested by the Saudi government. Anyone with any knowledge of history would acknowledge this. Iraq, yes, they now are requesting that we begin withdrawal, and we are complying, if you haven’t been paying attention recently, we have reached an agreement for gradual withdrawl. Funny thing about “imperialist aggression”–it doesn’t involve the element of withdrawl EVER!!! Imperialist aggression is committed for the purpose of annexing territory or sometimes garnishing resources, neither of which are present here (and don’t even TRY to play the oil card on me until you can provide DOCUMENTED PROOF of ONE DROP of Iraqi oil being taken by the U.S.)
I am no chauvenist, only a realist, and I’m not making absolute judgements about whose lives are worth more than others. I’m saying that every nation’s own government has as its first responsibility protecting its own citizens. This is true of each nation’s government, and they MUST think like an American or whatever country they are the leaders of.
“A million Iraqis murdered” BY WHOM??? The answer is primarily other Iraqis, so if you want to hold the U.S. accountable for all of these on the grounds that they wouldn’t have happened if we hadn’t gone in there, then by your logic, I hope you’re prepared to blame the Union army and the abolitionists for every murder committed by the KKK, because the KKK would never have been formed had slavery not been ended. It wasn’t their fault that a bunch of psychos chose repression over liberty, nor is it our fault that a bunch of savages can’t live in peace with their own neighbors. Finally, what do you suggest we do about the terrorists. (And don’t tell me what we SHOULDN’T do–if you want to criticize, then offer an alternative.)
Thank you, Dr. Freude.
Well you’re making me laugh at least. And I have four years of college and two degrees, thank you very much. Perhaps I misspoke on defending myself, I’m referring to my comments as regarding the fact that I’m throwing the second stone here, not the first. I have no lack of love, nor psychological inferiority, and I have examined the psychological grounds of terrorism–brainwashed, blind hatred. And who is any enemy of the U.S.A.? That would be Al-Qaida and the nations that have aided and abetted this organization in the past. Some things are simpler than they seem.
I feel like some of us are letting the complete lack of principle and name calling of people like Alex Leytes drag us down to their level… We should keep this on the level of what is actually true or not true, you know?
Setting aside Leytes delusional belief that “the Iraqis want us there” (are you fucking insane?) because a government controlled by US imperialism happens to like US imperialism… setting that aside… I think what really gets at the essence of this is that these disgusting American chauvinists like Alex Leytes and Gary think that American lives are worth more than the lives of people of other nationalities of the world. They are confronted with the fact that a million Iraqi people have been murdered as a result of US imperialist intervention, and their response is a shrug, a feigned hint of sympathy, and a rant about “getting the terrorists.”
I know I mentioned this before, but I want to mention it one more time:
Stop thinking like an American, and start thinking about humanity!
To Mr. Leytes:
What pretentious folly it is to presume to set terms for “debate” when you obviously don’t understand the meaning of the word. Beyond that, your ad homonym attacks and straw-man arguments underscore the fact that you would need a year of college level critical thinking instruction before anyone who did know what the word meant could take you seriously.
What is your real point anyway? You say you need to defend yourself. From what may I ask? Certainly it can’t be people advocating peaceful, loving response to belligerence. What here, actually threatens you? Could it be the incipient realization of your own lack of love? You cast irrational aspersions on thoughtful and relevant reflection on the psychological grounds of terrorism. Could this be due to your subconscious sensitivity to your own psychological inferiority? Is this what you are really defending against, any rational scrutiny of your basic mental state? You pretend to be defending your country by contentious engagement in this discussion. Tell me, who here, in your estimation, is any enemy of the U.S.A? If you walked your talk you would be out on active duty in the military defending us all from real threats rather than indulging your paranoia, tilting at wind mills, hallucinating make-believe enemies where there are really, only friends.
Also, to Mr or Ms. Psychobabble, why don’t you do a little research on the 9/11 hijackers. None of them were in any way grossly oppressed or deprived–they were from middle-class, and in some cases, priviledged backgrounds, and any oppression they may have been under would have been at the hands of the governments of their OWN home nations–it had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the United States. And if you’re trying with a straight face to call bin Laden “oppressed” or “deprived” then you’re even crazier than I thought. And if Osama’s true grievance had to do with U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, then maybe he should have had it out with the Saudi government that REQUESTED THE U.S.’S PRESENCE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!
Spare me your psychobabble BS
I have no repressed fear or hatred, thank you very much. And I have no desire to throw any first stones, only to defend myself and for my country to defend itself against those who would throw far worse than stones at it. And you above, I didn’t say no civilians have died, I said we don’t target them. Read the legal code and learn about the difference between first degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. The terrorist acts against the U.S. have been the former–the civilians killed in our recent actions have been the latter. Both tragic but NO moral equivalence here whatsoever. Once you understand this distinction, then come back here and we can engage in further debate. Until then, you’re not worth my time. And funny you should mention Hiroshima and Vietnam, because how many Vietnamese or Japanese people do you see blowing themselves up to slaughter as many Americans as they can?? I thought so–ZERO!!! There goes your argument on that one!!! Islamic jihadism, I reiterate, is not about any supposed “terrorizing” on the U.S>’s part– it’s about blind, brainwashed hatred, nothing more, nothing less.
Close-minded, harshly judgmental self-righteousness is more dangerous than the blind, reactive violence of grossly oppressed, deprived primitives; especially when it is directly responsible for the oppression that systemically triggers the terrorism.
Anyone who can’t see that every human possesses in the dark recesses of the soul the potential for great evil, everyone who denies this penchant in him – or herself while projecting it on others is a secret terrorist and unconsciously feeds the flames that burn all mankind.
You righteous ones who would throw the first stone are the real cause of terrorism. And you need to see that those twisted souls who strap explosive belts on desperate, distressed, suicidal fools are mirrors of your own repressed fear and hatred.
Don’t think we target civilians? Watch winter soldier, 50 vets testifying to war crimes. What about Vietnam, the little girl running nake with napalm on her body? What about hiroshimi?
Thats why people are against the war, because they are against killing innocent people. U.S. is by the largest terrorizer of people around the planet.
No, T-Bone, by accepting the word terrorist (no quotation marks needed or acceptable) as defined by a nearly universal code of morality, we are taking a stand and saying that we are not going to allow these sick psychopaths to destroy our nation. They target civilians, we do not. That simple. And the supposed “grievences”–real or imaginary–are completely irrelevant. NOTHING justifies terrorism–defined as the DELIBERATE TARGETING of innocent civilians. We target military targets. And also, have your types ever bothered to research (assuming that 1 million deaths figure is accurate–a VERY dubious assumption given the fact that even U.N. estimates –certainly no lapdog for the U.S.–don’t go nearly that high) into who is actually doing most of that killing. Hint, it ain’t U.S. soldiers–it’s Iraqis killing other Iraqis. Terrorism is a symptom of nothing but blind hatred by people brainwashed by a sick, evil ideology. You people need to get a clue.
It is really quite simple. Feed the people of the world. Educate the people of the world. Make sure everyone has access to decent health care. If this was our mandate then we would not have this problem with \”terrorism.\” We would have friends. Terrorism is a symptom. Treat the cause.
Any attack that occurs on U.S. soil by anti american groups is either the result of militaristic and malicious foreign policy carried out by the U.S. government for the benefit of the national economy. Or the result of continuing economic warfare carried out over decades by those corporations who serve the national economy. Those benefiting most from the national economy and global natural resource plunder are a small handful of wealthy elites.
By passively accepting the term \”terrorists\” as defined by the U.S. government, people like Gerry Perry are passively accepting a shortcut to critically looking at the world from a materialist standpoint.
Most of the radical \”Jihadist\” sects in the middle east especially in Afghanistan can trace their rise in stature and wealth to American tax payer dollars and Federal Government check books. The Mujahadeen, the Taliban, and now handfuls of local warlords masquerading as Afghani security forces have all received monetary gifts and military training for one reason or another depending on the given situation in the reason and how it met the immediate of U.S. capital and geopolitical interests.
The term \”terrorist\” is meaningless without context, and any attack on U.S. is a direct result of the more dangerous terrorist\’s in Washington D.C. who terrorize not just the U.S. population, but the entire world!
Everyone needs to learn what \”false-flag\” terrorism is!
Furthermore, many people now believe that Cheney allowed 9/11 to happen on purpose: to pave the way for the Afghanistan & Iraq occupations, the so-called patriot act, etc.
Please do your own research!
[b][u]We WON\’T Be Your Soldiers[/u][/b]
I won\’t be your soldier,
Trained to kill for your lie.
Your war glory story
Skips the children who die.
She won\’t be your soldier,
To be raped in the night.
Who\’ll be watching her back
In this cesspool of fright?
He won\’t be your soldier,
Outlawed weapons deployed.
The torture continues.
So your contracts are void.
I won\’t be your soldier,
When the vets coming back,
Can\’t get needed treatments-
starts their suicide track.
We won\’t be your soldiers,
As atrocities mount.
We number our losses,
But Iraq has lost count!
© Copyright 2008 R.R.Ledford
(UN: rrledford at Writing.Com).
All rights reserved.
All political writings of RRLedford at [url]Http://www.writing.com/authors/RRLedford
[/url]
How about the \”terrorism\” of over 1 million Iraqis murdered in an immoral and illegitimate war?
How about the \”terrorism\” of prisoners tortured, brutalized, electrocuted, sexually humiliated, raped, and murdered at Abu Ghraib, and the continuation of that torture in US prisons all over the world?
What about the \”terrorism\” of white lynch mobs, nooses hanging from trees, and Klansmen carrying nooses and guns in Jena, along with Black youth threatened with over 26 years in prison for standing up to that?
What about the terrorizing of homosexuals and women, especially when women try to exercise their reproductive rights over their bodies?
And how about the \”terrorism\” of ICE raids in the dead of night, taking immigrants women away from their children, destroying lives.
We need to stop thinking like Americans, and start thinking about humanity.
The “We’re Not Your Soldiers” Tour is right on and needs to be supported! Are we going to be “Good Germans?” Or are we going to fulfill our responsibility to humanity and refuse to go along with these crimes that are being committed in our names?
Will the \”We are not your soldiers\” crowd become the Barack Obama Civilian Workforce?
At what point would you support fighting terrorism.
After there is a major terror strike at a shopping mall?
After a school full of Children are killed?
After a major explosion at a major US city?
After a mass poisoning of a large group of people?
After a nuclear explosion in the US?
When?
Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for yourself, your family, your friends and your community.
To:Phil Aliff,
Hey you FUCK im not a fan of Bush myself, no one put a gun to your head and told you to join the army.
To:Phil Aliff,
Hey you FUCK im not a fan of Bush myself, no one put a gun to your head and told you to join the army.
To:Phil Aliff,
Hey you FUCK im not a fan of Bush myself, no one put a gun to your head and told you to join the army.