When a government adopts actions, methods, and practices, which historically have been the actions, methods, and practices of despots and terrorists, is it not true that such a government becomes another in a long history of despots and terrorists? According to a newly released report from Physician For Human Rights , “After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts, and reports from human rights organizations, there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.”
Americans are used to chanting “We’re # 1”. What are we “#1” in now?
What you did to protect yourself was self-defense. If you had stuck around, tied them up and also tortured them – your crime would out-weigh any wrong they were there to do to you.
Torture IS NOT a self defense tactic. It is not even a tactic that works for retrieving usable information for national defense. It is a tactic of terror.
I would recommend googling the following query: Torture doesn’t work. You will find over 11,000,000 hits on that, many written by reputable writers and military leaders, I suggest you educate yourself about what torture is because torture is a lot different than what you see portrayed on TV shows like ’24’. Real life is for real.
As for your statement, “Nothing is [a] morally depraved than allowing your own demise without putting up a fight.” Your more religious friends might be offended by that statement – many of history’s martyrs and religious figures, Jesus being one of them, martyred themselves in the name of a greater cause.
How is it possible for anyone to be prepared to die rather than defend oneself during a direct,deadly attack on ones person.I was held up at gunpoint by 3 goblins demanding my car.I was not prepared to be abused in such a manner and felt threatened with my life.I drew my own gun and shot two of them,killing one.The third one fled the scene.I kept my S.U.V. And my life! Are you moral and brave enough to do the same.Nothing is a morally depraved than allowing your own demise without putting up a fight.
Dear Nigel,
I would be extremely supportive of Physicians for Human Rights investigating China, Cuba, Russia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Africa, or any other nation practicing torture.
I have no reply to your statement about those who would be thrilled to suffer under some methods of torture [u]other than to say[/u] that I don’t think that you have a real understanding of what those methods entail, otherwise you would not be so flippant about them. In the words of Inigo Montoya “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means” (Princess Bride)
I have very strong feelings about injustice throughout the world, however, I am a citizen of [i]this[/i] nation and what this nation does it does in my name also, therefore it is my responsibility as a citizen of the U.S. to denounce practices and acts committed by the leadership of MY country that are illegal and inhumane, to do any less is to be in many ways complicit with those acts.
Yes, governments and people make mistakes, but it is how these mistakes are exposed, examined and, if needed, to be absolutely repudiated in every way. This examination of our behavior is what brings humanity into a greater understanding of how to live together peaceably, it also serves as a protection for the future.
If a family member of mine had been killed by one of those detainees…. hmmm. I ask you, how do you feel when you hear of the brutality and torture meted out on members of the U.S. military/contractors who have been captured and killed by Iraqi extremists? Does it make you angry? It probably does, but instead of going the distance and saying, “these things are wrong, these are crimes against humanity, these are war crimes,” your moral compass leads you to say, “I want to torture them back, they deserve it.” This is where you have caught yourself up into the same extremist belief systems of your supposed “enemy”. Now you are in line with the beliefs of your enemy and your enemy has now become your associate, an associate that looks upon the treatment of prisoners by you in exactly the same way as you see treatment being done by him to your people.
This sets up the same vicious cycle that humankind has meted out to itself for millennia, which is eye for an eye tooth for a tooth. By adhering to this archaic archetype of justice you will never evolve beyond the terror and vicious inhumanity that has haunted human history.
To set standards, to have a morality that says regardless of what I have suffered I will not become a monster, I will not practice monstrosity, I would rather die than become what is most deplorable, I will not add to the depravity of humanity by becoming one of the depraved, to take this stand is to evolve out of the cave, it is to become a beacon of light of what could be if humans were humane to all other humans all over the world REGARDLESS of circumstances.
What this would do, eventually, would be to create a world where torture never becomes a legitimized option by anyone, anywhere, it would cease to be part of the consciousness of the vast majority of people on the earth.
I would encourage you to examine your cave Nigel and see whether or not it needs a little sprucing up.
Once Physicians for Human Rights finishes their job against the U.S., who will be next? China? Cuba? Russia? Afghanistan? Iran? Pakistan? Any number of countries in Africa? It may sound trite but I’ll bet that there are a lot of detainees in the world who would be thrilled to be subjected to forced nakedness and stress positions.
You may believe that we are an evil country and if you are so incensed by our human rights violations, what do you do and how do you feel about the rest of the world?
Yup, we make mistakes. Yup, we do some unsavory things. But I’ll bet you wouldn’t have the freedom to make your websites against the government in about 90% of those other countries.
I would love to know what your reactions would be when it was a family member of yours that suffered at the hands of one of the detainees.